Kluge / Nowald in Samter, Posnan (2017) Monday, May 8, 2017

Update Post Visit/June-July 2017 -- following the Schmidt line
Went to local family history center to look further at the film #764068/Samter, since it is digitized and on-line. The earliest records on this film are from 1783.  So I started there since I don't have any birth dates for Anna Rosina nor Johann Gottlieb Norwald.  Eventually, on page 60, there was a birth record for Anna Rosina Schmidt, from Samter, born 1801 28 March. Her parents are Georg Schmidt and Maria Kuehn.

Here's what I can make out.
Anna Rosina was born on 28th Marz, baptized on 7th April
Father: Georg Schmidt, is a resident (einwonher) and blacksmith (Schmidt) in Samter. Some note w/ the words "regiment" and "company" like he was in the Army at one time?
He was a muskateer.

Mother: Maria Schmidt born Kuehn

1st witness: Young lady (jung frau) Rosina Schultz daughter of a brandy wine brewer in Samter
2nd witness: George Fritz citizen and blacksmith in Samter
3rd witness:  Mertin Mietzer is a citizen and clothmaker in Samter

If you look at the opposite page, #23, you can see there's a resident that's a medical apothecary. And not shown on these pages, but there are many people listed with the profession "tobacco planter" (toback planteur).

On other pages, there was one sister (of Anna Rosina) Anna Maria Schmidt, born 1804. This may have been the event that also killed our ancestor Maria Kuehn as Georg Schmidt has 2 other children with Eva Rosina Webern in 1805 and 1808 (pages 107 and 133).

Georg Schmidt may also have a brother Johann Friedrich Schmidt, married to Maria Elisabeth Kruger(n). They show up in the same church records having several children around the same time as Georg.

Also, there's another film listed in the LDS library catalog called "military city/post" .... so maybe there was a military base of some type near Samter.  It is only in film version, so will have to look at it next time I go to Salt Lake City.

Here's a link to Meyer's Gazatteer http://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20672054 for Samter.

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Pre-Visit Info:
Christopher Kluge and Wilhelmina Nowald were married in 1850 in Samter, Posnan (from Posnan Project on-line database).

Next steps : Look up village of Samter, Posnan in the red books to verify the church parish.
Then look at films for Christopher Kluge and Wilhelmina Nowald marriage in 1850.

Day Two Visit/Monday Info
Looked up Samter in Map Guide to German Parish Registers (Posnan II). It belongs to Samter parish.
Then looked up Samter in the familysearch.org, intl film 1194748 which was online (woo hoo, no microfilm reader required). (Red books also list intl film #764068 as being from Samter).

Then found entry page 242 - first page of 1850 marriages (in 10 minutes, found this instead of an hour when using microfilm)

Christoph and Wilhelmine are in the 3rd entry.
Rough translation from their entry is:

10th Feb 1850, evangelical church, Christopher Kluge from Niemieczkowo (parish: Obornik) and Wilhelmine Nowald from Twardowo (parish: Samter)

Wilhelmine's father Gottfried (or Gottlieb) is already deceased. Her guardian gives his ok for her to marry Christoph. Wilhelmine is the oldest daughter (24 years old). 

Christoph is 30 years old and a widower. He may have lived in the town of Rogasen (par: Obornik) since this is mentioned in the record from which Christoph received the approval to marry Wilhelmine.

Below is an entry for the potential father and mother of Wilhelmine, from the Posnan Project. We now know she was the oldest daughter. (since confirmed these are the parents).

Protestant community Wronki [Wronke]entry 4 / 1824

  • Johann Gottlieb Nowald (25 years old)  100%
  • Anna Rosina Schmidt (26 years old) 
Day Three Visit/Wednesday Info
From film for Wronke, parish Wronke #764499, I found the marriage record for Johann and Anna. They were both in residence in the parish/city of Wronke. Johann was a blacksmith. All parents were deceased at the time of the marriage.

I then assumed that Wilhelmina was born in Wronke, being the oldest child. I found her birth record on film 764498, confirming this! Note in record says she was born in the town of Biezdrowo, near Wronke.

Next steps:
1. Look for another marriage for Christoph Kluge in the Poznan project (maybe within the dates of that database). Here's a possible entry (except we'd expect Christoph to be younger than 30yrs old):

Protestant community Pniewy [Pinne]entry 3 / 1848

  • Christoph Kluge (30 years old)  100%
  • Anna Louise Grieger (20 years old) 
    father: Christoph Grieger
2. Look for marriage of Christoph's parent (Georg is father) in Poznan project
Here are some choices:

Protestant community Krotoszyn [Krotoschin]entry 3 / 1815

  • Georg Kluge (25 years old)  100% 
    father: Matthias Kluge +
  • Anna Rosina Zobke (21 years old) 
    father: Christian Zobke

Protestant community Sieraków [Zirke]entry 18 / 1817

  • Georg Kluge (21 years old)  100% 
    father: Christoph Kluge
  • Louise Schaerfchen alias Schulz (33 years old, widow
    Additional information: Wittwe George Schaerschen
LDS specialist told me that most often the marriage was held in the town of the bride.

3. Maybe "Justine Kluge, b. 1844" is a child from Christoph's first marriage ... look for her is US records and Posnan records.

4. Looking in BaSIA for these folks, but most of the towns from which they came, records have not been indexed that far back yet.

Sources:
Kirchenbuch, 1783-1874, LDS film #764068, Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1783-1821 -- Tote 1807-1821 -- Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1820-1821 for Evan. church Samter, Posen, Prussia.

Kirchenbuch, 1783-1874, LDS film #1194748, Taufen 1868-1874 -- Heiraten 1822-1827, 1841-1874 -- Tote 1822-1831 for Evan. church Samter, Posen, Prussia

Kirchenbuch, 1778-1874, LDS film #764498, Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1778, 1794 -- Taufen 1794-1835 for Evan. church Samter, Posen, Prussia

Kirchenbuch, 1778-1874, LDS film #764499, Heiraten 1795-1838 -- Tote 1794-1819 -- Taufen, Tote 1818 -- Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1821-1823, 1825-1826, 1838-1841 for Evan. church Samter, Posen, Prussia

Meyer's Gazatteer http://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20672054 for Samter.

Posen Project http://poznan-project.psnc.pl/index.php?lang=en

Get the scoop - read on!

Louis Goetz - Looking in Ortssippenbuchen / Church Books (2017)

Day Two/Tuesday
Continuing work on tips from last visit, I want to look at the ortssippenbuch -- village of Eichstetten.
Title: Ortsfamilienbuch Eichstetten : Eichstetten am Kaiserstuhl, 1644-1900

Call Number: 943 B4do ser. A v. 309

Due to the fact that more records have been indexed, may want to look in Ancestry Intl again.

Day Three/Wednesday
Spent part of the day looking for Goetz in Baden.

Day Four/Thursday
Went back to Trinity Church records, I re-located the marriage record for Heinrich Fred. Ludwig Goetz and Christiane Heizmann.

In very small print, it is noted that Heinrich's father is Wilhelm Goetz from Sachen-Gotha, and Christine's father is Jakob Heizmann from Wuerttemberg. (US film 954974)

Looked thru all the Germans to America (1861-1850) at Goetz and Gotz but did not find any reference that looked relevant.

After Visit 
Looked at notes again from 2016. Looks like we might know the brother and sister of Ludwig Goetz. Need to verify.

Also, in familysearch, someone has listed Barbara Schwartz, Steinmauern, Baden, as the mother of Ludwig Goetz. Would need to locate the church record to confirm. Film 1046271 would be a good one to look at.

Get the scoop - read on!

Ziegler/Koehler Families ... the Search Continues in Liebesdorf (2017) Sunday, May 7, 2017

Follow-up in July 2017
A tip from a cousin led me to a roots web site for a database with the Church books of Göppingen beginning in 1808. While Goeppingen is a little ways away from Ruppertshofen, I was able to find some useful information on Christian Fred's sister - Maria Barbara Ziegler. I knew she was married to Johann Andreas Arnold - but I learned that she moved to Ilshofen (south of Ruppertshofen) and had 6 children (including names and birth dates).  Maria died at the age of 68 in 1894.

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Before I left for Salt Lake, I reviewed the info I had on my second great-grandfather, Christian Fred Ziegler, and second great-grandmother, Anna Maria Kohler.

Pre-visit Info
At the last visit, I learned:
1. Johann Georg Ziegler family (my 3rd ggfather) (#236) is from Ruppertshofen, Gerabronn, Germany, born Oct 1788.
1a. Father: Johann Georg Ziegler (Sr) is Georg's father
1b. Mother: Eva Margarita
2. Confirmed my 3rd ggmother's name is Carolina Barbara Stegmaier, also from Ruppertshofen, born 25 Jan 1801.
2a. Johann Georg Stegmaier, born 1768
2b. Anna Catherina

Here is a copy of the Johann Georg Ziegler family (#236) register from Ruppertshofen (Christian Fred is the third child of the children on this record).



Here is a copy of the marriage record for our few times ggrandmother Carolina Barbara Stegmaier to Johann Georg Ziegler (2nd entry down on the left). Her father is Johann Georg Heinrich Stegmaier, mother is Anna Catherina Hessenauer.

Johann Georg's father is Johann Georg and his mother is Eva Margaretha Rappold(tin).


So, now I want to trace these ancestors back farther and make good copies of the associated church records to answer a) how far back can I find family records? b) did they always live in Ruppertshofen?

Films to check for 1a, 1b and 2a and 2b.
1528606 Items 1-3 FamilyRegisters
1528604 Births, marriages ... 1600s to 1842

Other facts:
From FHL film: Ziegler family #s are 541, 144, 244, 402, 274, 408, 433 (144 might be the most interesting) (see hand note IMG3290), maybe family 174 contains father?

From familysearch: Zieglers in many towns nearby. For example:
Birkenlohe, Schrozberg, Wiesenbach , Brekingen, Hohengehren, Neuselhalden
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Day One Visit / Saturday Info
3. I haven't figured out the village for Anna Maria Koehler, born 14 May 1829.
Research steps:
1. looked in the WEI again (v. 5) -- verified that there's an entry "Rosina Kohler" application date May 1857 (no birth date in the WEI), from Liesbesdorf, Gerabronn
2. Looked up Liesbesdorf in the red books - to find that Liesbesdorf is part of Michelbach an der Heide church district.
3. Looked up Michelbach an der Heide in Family History library catalog (Liesbesdorf not in there).
4. Looked at 3 different films for Michelbach an der Heide (1528593, 1528594, 1528592).
5. Found 2 family registers for Kohler families in Liesbesdorf (Librarian later showed me a lot of this in now on Ancestry international version).
6. The two families are related: father/son.

Family 375: (Image 3973)
Johann Leonhardt Koehler b 1806, Liesbesdorf
+ Maria Catherina Barbara b 1803
Kids: 
Rosina Barbara b 1832, d 1832
Rosina Margaretha b 1833 (went to America) (our ancestor? == maybe her name is Rosina Maria (?))
Margaretha Barbara b 1835, d 1835
Margaretha Barbara b 1836 (went to America 1859)
Johann #1 b 1839, d 1840
Johann Michael b 1841
Catherina Margaretha b 1844
Notes on record say: took over house of family 374; family went to America in 1860.

Here is the top and bottom half of the Kohler family church register (#375).




7. Found Kohler family in WEI; entry just says Johann Kohler and family.
8. In looking on Ancestry, international addition, found a Baltimore ship record for the family in 1860, listing:
Leonard (56 yrs)
Barbara (54 yrs)
Johann (18 yrs) - so the math isn't exactly correct per the church book
Margaretha (16 yrs) - so the math isn't exactly correct per the church book

How to prove or disprove this Rosina Margareta, b 1833 in Liesbesdorf, is our ancestor?
Step 1 is to look up her emigration application. The record is indexed in Ancestry, but the image is not there - so go to film.
- Rosina Koehler from Liesbesdorf (Gerabronn), app date May 22, 1857 #FHL intl film 573623 and Rosina Kohler from Michelbach an der Heide (Gerabronn) intl film 573632

Day Two Visit / Monday Info
From the file 573623, was able to find the entries for Fred Ziegler (entry 86, 14 Oct 1857) and Rosina Margaretha Koehler (entry 46, 22 May 1857).

It then took several hours to find Rosina Margaretha's detailed emigration record on film 573632.
The info on her record says the following (generally): 

Rosina Margareta Kohler in Liesbesdorf

Regarding the request of the single woman

The following is declared first
1. Still missing some info, primarily that she has agreed to emigrate

2. Sponsors at baptism (?) was a shoemaker (Mr. Stank), he will take care of any obligations she leaves behind.
He will also carry the cost for a place to stay and 2 days in hotel

3. Her father, according to guardianship protocol 108, will also pay. He is able to pay.

4. With respect to emigration and release of subject of nobility, (women is not a citizen):

No objections.

5. The immigrant receives from her father 150 franks in cash for travel cost.

Signed the Village council

22 Mai 1857

In Mai 1857, 24 yrs old, has permission of father, shoemaker to immigrate to North America and release from the Wuerttemberg state. The single Rosina has been granted.


Next steps: Look up applications for Rosina's sister and family. Verify tape numbers in WEI.

To find Liesbesdorf on google.com/maps, type in "Liesbesdorf, Gerabronn, Germany"

You'll be directed to an intersection of the L1037, K2515 and the L1041. If you zoom in, you'll see that one of the rivers is the Michelbach River.

Day Three Visit / Wednesday Info
I decided to verify some of the translating I did on the Ziegler family records using familysearch.org and ancestryinstitution.com.

1. 1780s
Johann Georg Ziegler (3rd ggrand-father) is from Rot am See
wife Carolina Barbara Stegmaier is from Ruppertshofen

2a. 1750s
Johann Georg Ziegler's mother, Eva Margarita Rappold was from Michelbach an der Heide
Eva's parents are Georg Michael Rappold and Maria Margaretha.

2b. Carolina Stegmaier's father, Johann Georg Heinrich, was an innkeeper from Ruppertshofen.
His wife, Carolina's mother was Anna Catherina Hessenauer, also from Ruppertshofen.

YouTube video of Ruppertshofen

Gerabronn was the county seat in the 1800s. some good post cards here
No Wiki page for Ruppertshofen. But here's one for Gerabronn.

Get the scoop - read on!